C P OR NOT CP.

This esteemed forum already boasts a considerable number of threads, which I am sure cover every relevant aspect of the forum’s main topic and even diversify into other topics and issues. However I consider that it is sometimes beneficial, to encourage contributions , to start yet another one even though the topic may have been referred to and relatively fully discussed in threads past , I am also encouraged by the known desire of long time respected prolific contributor Another Lurker to keep posts coming in an effort to obtain an extension or reprieve of the threatened closure in the near future.
Hopefully this new thread will encourage further discussion and input from contributors on the sometimes difficult dividing line between SCP administered with a view to being a strong deterrent due the severity of the pain inflicted as opposed to a few love taps which cause little or no physical pain and is delivered in an almost jocular way.
A good starting point might be to look at the Wikipedia definition.

School corporal punishment refers to inflicting deliberate physical and emotional pain or discomfort in response to undesired behavior by students in schools. It often involves striking the student either across the buttocks or palms of their hands[1][2] with a tool such as a rattan cane, wooden paddle, slipper, leather strap or wooden yardstick. Less commonly, it could also include spanking or smacking the student with the open hand, especially at the primary school and junior secondary school levels .”

The reference to emotional pain may possibly cloud the issue..Examples might be a teacher loudly shouting unflattering remarks at a pupil . Or pupils being made to remain in an embarrassing and uncomfortable position Our Asian cousins seem to favour the Murga position . In the UK there was a tradition of being made to stand in the corner with your hands upon your head although some PE teachers have been known to be more imaginative.

I recollect that someone once said on this forum that if a pupil took a caning well then the punishment was not hard enough . One hopes that that was not intended to be taken seriously but finding the dividing line between the strong deterrent and the token pat and categories in between is not that that easy .

There are or have been several vid clips mainly I think of Korean origin posted on various sites which purport to show a group canings of pupils in class . A lot of these are relatively mild and some even very mild ,seeming be occurring in an almost jocular atmosphere with pupils smiling and grinning. I recollect seeing one where a young lady having received her one token stroke later comes back and wobbles her bottom at the teacher to receive another stroke. There is of course always a possibility that for some reason these vids are staged with very willing participants.

Apologies for my laziness in not trolling the web looking for appropriate examples to post on this thread but I am sure their existence is not doubted.

I personally experienced and witnessed a fair amount of SCP at both my junior and senior schools.

At junior school the main disciplinarians were 2 teachers whose activities I have previously chronicled here in some detail. As far as I recollect any caning on hand or bottom or any spanking of bottom ,arm or upper thigh dished out by them would not be classified as mild. The head teacher was a relatively mild easy going individual whom seemed happy to delegate discipline matters to the 2 aforesaid individuals. He did however have a penchant for putting pupils (mainly girls) across his knee and tapping out a gentle rhythm with a ruler on their bottoms whilst reciting doggerel verses in time. This was usually in private in his office but not always so. Most of us considered these not proper whackings and an attempt by him at some form of humour.

At my boys only senior school the cane was applied with considerable vigour to the bottom leaving quite serious stripes which took a while to go away. There was also quite a few slipperings which were usually best avoided but occasionally one would get a token one whack not very hard which were never really regarded as true CP.

Most cases of SCP reported in the press were invariably of a fairly severe nature. Helston Grammar and Northwich Grammar immediately come to mind . However I do recollect at the back of my mind reading somewhere about a case where the actions of a headmaster who had, it was claimed almost playfully. put a cheeky girl pupil across knee and patted her fairly lightly on her bottom, were deemed,for him, not appropriate conduct.Recollect he was bound over..a fairly mild result.

Having discussed their school CP experiences with many people over the years I believe that during the 60s and 70s there was a fair bit of light almost token CP in many UK schools. I am thinking of instances like a single smack on the bottom in response to a cheeky quip when a pupil was leaving a classroom or walking along. Or a pupil making a disruptive amusing remark during a lesson being called to the front of the class and made to stand alongside alongside the teacher’s desk; The teacher, without even getting up from his chair or making the pupil assume any position. would then delivers a single whack with either hand or a handy slipper and tells the pupil to return to his or her seat. If the remark was amusing enough its likely that both teacher and pupil will have smiles on their faces throughout. Even slightly more formal CP involving more whacks and a bent over position was not it seems that painful especially if the recipient was female

In fact in all my research I found it was the norm for especially for females to claim that their bottoms showed no ill effects such as reddening whatsoever after getting the slipper at school . Perhaps a strong indication of the mildness. Of course there may have been a time lapse between delivery and inspection.

Another often reoccurring incident reported by girls was the hand up the back of the skirt and gentle pats on the backs of thighs to emphasise errors, whilst standing alongside the teacher’s desk going through homework or an assignment. I note with interest that Ms Ottley recently found an old post which told of a teacher who had perfected his technique to the extent that one handed he was able pull aside the knicker leg and deliver a slap on the bared bottom. No doubt a technique perfected after many years practice.

I also gathered that many pupils were more than happy to accept a few relatively mild smacks instead of having to give up their spare time to write a 400 work punishment essay although interestingly this often depended on the kudos and popularity of the teacher involved. It seemed that getting any form of CP from a teacher designated a geek or whatever the appropriate unkind description was at the time was something to be definitely avoided .

Hopefully fellow contributors will let me have their highly valued views on matters raised in this thread. In conclusion I will post a pic which has no real relevance to this thread other than to indicate the type of pupils who may have been unfortunate enough to have been subject to SCP both mild and otherwise in the less enlightened 60s ,70s, and early 80s. For some reason the girl on the right always catches my eye.


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I think I have seen that picture before (or similar) but thought it was a genuine PE lesson – I didn’t appreciate that it was punishment!

In answer to the comment: “I recollect that someone once said on this forum that if a pupil took a caning well then the punishment was not hard enough”

I think it depends on the interpretation of ‘taking it well’. If a newly qualified teacher was giving their first caning then they may be reluctant to do it hard enough, and with no response from the pupil it they may assume that it wasn’t hard enough so they may increase the severity next time?

However, the pupil may find it excruciatingly painful but is determined to stay in position (particularly if others are present); perhaps because they think they deserve the caning or perhaps to show that the person giving the caning hasn’t ‘broken’ them? (The latter may apply to boys rather than girls?)

Of course, if the person giving the caning is using reaction to determine how hard to cane there is the risk that the pupil will feign pain to convince the person giving the caning that it was hard enough.

…..or am I overthinking this?

That leads me to ask if a schoolteacher did have any instruction on how to cane and did they practice on a cushion strapped to their dining room table?

That is my first thoughts although I will have more to say later particularly about the red bottoms and the girl on the far right!

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In the beginning of the school year a form is distributed for the benefit of the parents either in the student book or separately.  But some schools make it difficult and make the parent write a letter while still other schools allow the parents to decide case by case.  Few parents opt out because their teachers have their best end in mind.  Why do schools allow for the student to opt out. They don’t want to physically restrain an unwilling student?

A handful of students go throughout their schooling without being paddled and fewer still so close to the day they graduate as Caitlyn.  She was spanked for the first time as a member of the class of 2014.  The school must have merited a spanking so late in her schooling.

She was left to asking her classmates whether she should opt out and she regretted taking their advice.   It is suppose to be as equally as onerous as a suspension so it has to be painful as Caitlyn could have ended up with a black and blue backside.  She got burnt because for her it may have been a classic case of buyer’s remorse.

After four years of college and two years of dental school she she graduated from this school of dentistry.  I think when she looks back she will be grateful that her teachers cared enough about her to give her the background she needed to earn her a diploma.  Maybe that will even include that painful day of reckoning that in retrospect may have done her more good than harm.  CP or not CP that is the question as a parent she may soon be pondering.

She is no longer a little good but a fine young lady.

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Ms Ottley/Larry
Your thoughts concerning the 1st pic are noted and fully understood. However it should be obvious that the 2 miscreants are the 2 young ladies being made to remain in the painful legs up position while their classmates continue with normal routines.

Ms Ottley
I look forward to receiving your further comments. In the meantime I do not think you are over thinking the significance of pupil reaction. In my junior school we had an elderly ,somewhat diminutive but very strict female teacher who, although having no official title, always acted as if she was the deputy headmistress with the apparent approval of our somewhat laid back headmaster .
She was a definite believer in effective CP for both girls and boys although she treated them differently. Boys would be made to roll up their left shirt sleeves while she took off her rings and put them in her pocket, whereupon her right hand would go into action delivering around 10 to 24 vicious slaps to your upper arm. Feigning bravery and toughness was a complete lost cause and a little over reacting was definitely beneficial in bringing the proceedings to an end quicker. Very occasionally she would send a boy to another teacher Mr T for the cane where you would get either 4 handers or 4 to 6 on the bottom in front of his class. Something definitely to be avaoided.
She never slapped girls on the arm . Mainly  they got it on the top of the backs of bare legs in a standing position . Around 3 to 6 whacks on each leg with the skirt partially raised . While leaning over to do this she could not see the girls faces so they tended to go vocal .On a few occasion girls finished up over her lap whilst she sat behind her desk and were given slightly longer spankings again usually on the bare tops of their legs although one or two got it on the bottom. I still, after all these years, clearly remember the name of a girl who got it long and hard on her bottom for stealing dinner money from coat pockets. There was a complaint from girls who were put across her knee that they always felt they were about to fall off as her lap was angled down due to her short legs. Interestingly in the case of the girl just mentioned MISS R took the trouble to open the bottom right drawer of her pedestal desk to support her right leg and get it higher and also readjusted her. chair position .This only happened on that one occasion but I know forum members like this kind of detail. The girl was very red faced and in tears  at the end. Though this may have been partially due to embarrassment. She was not a popular girl and because of the theft nobody was sorry for her.  Although not particularly clever she did manage to  somehow pass the 11 plus exam and secure a place at good grammar school.  (Sadly?) she was apparently the only girl who was ever asked to leave at the end of the 1st year after being deemed unsuitable.

I always wondered over Miss Rs different treatment of girls and boys . I now think she was quite savvy and refrained from spanking boys on the backs of their bare legs in case it gave them fantasies in later life. Thinks……. do we know of an elderly male who was, in his formative years, spanked on the back of his bare legs by a female teacher and still has fantasies about it?.

FWIW my later interest in CP was still very dormant back then at the tender age of 11. In fact I was quite sensitive and used to get pretty upset and hate the teacher when friends “got it” .Especially a certain pretty girl named Gloria on whom I probably had a bit of a crush.

American Way
Thank you for contributing . I would be most interested to learn your views as to whether or not some US paddlings could have been quite mild and tending towards being Token . I particularly have in mind students like Sarah Jane claiming it didn’t hurt.

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Real or token swats?  The reason why three is chosen is because it is suppose to hurt for eight hours or during the course of a day (rounded off from 8:00 to 4:00).  Before school is often when the students are spanked.  Chloe’s account echoes that of many.  High school students are spanked more often than middle school children because it is so painful unless given by a paddle of a different dimension often mandated in handbooks.  Many times the students are given time to compose themselves after a spanking for tears are often shed.  Token swats are more the exception than the rule.  Fewer swats of the same intensity are used if the spankable infraction is less serious as is often as days suspended or detentions option afforded.

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The best I can imagine what happens in the principal’s office Is what happens at the Heart Attack Grill.  The patrons are “punished” for not finishing their meals with three swats.  It is not mandatory and I would imagine when they volunteer the number was chosen not at random but to be similar to their own recent (perhaps three years earlier but more with these two volunteers) three swats administered in school. 21 is the drinking age.  Vegas attracts people throughout the country including states where paddling persists.  It is something they will feel for a day.  Their accounts are similar when it comes to bruising.

It is not a beating, by any means, but not something you look forward to either.  Parents wouldn’t be hesitant to sign on to a spanking similar to this as it may have been similar to theirs when they committed the same spankable infractions.  It is not shocking to those that live in certain southern states.  They take it all in stride. They’re always comparing who does the paddling and what they wear that can act like a cushion or crash bag.  A football player would be spanked harder than a normal size girl.  It is not meant to tickle but to teach a lesson comparable to a boring and isolating suspension.

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I can recall, thinking back to my primary school time 1957-61 and subsequent grammar school experience, only one occasion where classroom punishment was given in what might be called a jovial way. Mostly the culprit, having assumed the instructed position, would be hit once or perhaps twice, reasonably hard, with the slipper (though, as I’ll mention, some teachers used an alternative implement of choice). Everyone thought this was fair, and the task for the recipient was to stop any visible tears.

My tale concerns our geography teacher Mr M in my first year at grammar school. He didn’t normally use a slipper; instead he had an old leather belt which he kept in his desk drawer. The first boy on the receiving end of this was W, who would have had his leg smacked but was, unusually, wearing long trousers. “Sorry chum” was Mr M’s comment when he realised this. It was all a bit of a cause celebre; I overheard one of the school prefects saying to his friend “Did you hear, W got the strap from M”. Discussion in our class included “he pulled it right back”, and one of the boys said to W “Don’t say it didn’t hurt, you were crying”.

The geography lessons were always held in two specialised classrooms, and so we all had to change rooms for geography. Of course, boys were frequently late, and Mr M adopted the technique of making the latecomers form a line and then using his belt on them in turn, not with any great force, but certainly not in a “jovial” way.  Another boy, P, did once get a fairly hard swipe with the belt for chewing gum in class (following an interrogation along the lines of “Do you chew gum in any other class? So it’s just in my class, is it?” — you get the idea.

The point of this tale, though, relates to the second time W was in trouble, when Mr M decided to offer him the option of a detention instead of corporal punishment. “I’ll take the strap, sir” was W’s reply. There was a whisper at the back of the class “He’s really going to get it now”. So W was told to bend over facing the blackboard; the tail of his blazer was carefull lifted out of the way; the belt was pulled back — and then W was given the gentlest tap possible. “Give him a round of applause” said Mr M. We were then regaled with a story of how, over the years, Mr M had sometimes offered the option of a detention, and nearly always it had been taken, so that W’s “bravery” on this occasion was something to be applauded. The rest of the class, though, just thought W was lucky!

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